MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
Today marked a second day of high-profile testimony in an Oakland federal court where Elon Musk is going up against Sam Altman over the future of OpenAI. Musk continued his testimony from yesterday. He was cross-examined. Rachael Myrow was in court again to listen. She's senior editor of member station KQED's Silicon Valley news desk. Hey, Rachael.
RACHAEL MYROW, BYLINE: Hey.
KELLY: Hey. So yesterday, lawyers for both sides laid out their basic theories of the case. Walk us through them.
MYROW: Musk's side is arguing that he helped found OpenAI as a nonprofit intentionally to serve humanity first, above profit, and also to keep powerful AI from concentrating in the hands of any one company, but especially Google. Musk's team is claiming that Altman and his colleagues betrayed that promise when they took big investments from Microsoft and established a for-profit that dominated the original nonprofit. OpenAI's defense? Musk long knew about the plan to create a for-profit and was fine with it until he lost control of OpenAI. After that, he left, launched his own competing AI developer platform and sued.
KELLY: Now, we mentioned Elon Musk's testimony. He testified yesterday. He did it again today. What stood out?
MYROW: The second day of testimony for Musk continued his campaign to burnish his credibility as a smart and likable guy, one that OpenAI engineers respected. For example, Musk discussed a couple of emails from principals at OpenAI that gushed about him. One of my favorites said of Musk, it helps that we have the most overwhelmingly competent person in the world helping us. Later, in cross-examination, OpenAI's lawyer tried to paint Musk in a negative light. And some of Musk's answers did strain credulity.
When OpenAI's lead attorney William Savitt asked if Musk had ever called an OpenAI employee a jackass, Musk said, quote, "it's possible" I may have done so on more than one occasion. Then he insisted he doesn't lose his temper or yell, which is contradicted by nonlegal evidence like Walter Isaacson's comprehensive biography of Musk, published in 2023. A big question here has to do with a statute of limitations, that Musk waited too long to sue. Musk left OpenAI in 2018, so Musk's lawyer asked him, why not sue then? And Musk said, I would have sued sooner if I thought the charity had been stolen sooner.
KELLY: What else stood out to you today, Rachael?
MYROW: Well, cross-examination, for one thing, where things got sticky. OpenAI's lawyer William Savitt exhaustively went through emails and texts to and from Musk to establish that he knew details about OpenAI's for-profit evolution. So, for example, Savitt pointed to his texts with Shivon Zilis, the mother of four of Musk's children. She was his eyes and ears on the OpenAI board early on. And she texted Musk when his relationships at the company started to fray, asking whether she should keep information flowing his way. He texted back yes.
KELLY: So this trial is expected to go on a few more weeks. Just in a few sentences, what are you watching for?
MYROW: OpenAI CEO Sam Altman hasn't taken the stand yet, so that's the biggest thing to come. Both he and Musk have a similar challenge, though, to come across as principled and credible. And those are the headliners. But I'll be watching the judge.
KELLY: All righty. That's Rachael Myrow with member station KQED. Thank you, Rachael.
MYROW: Thank you.
KELLY: And a note, Microsoft is a financial supporter of NPR.
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