LEILA FADEL, HOST:
OK. Let's look at one part of Homeland Security affected by the partial government shutdown - the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA. Deanne Criswell served as FEMA administrator under President Biden. She oversaw responses to disasters like Hurricane Helene, that devastated the southeastern U.S. in 2024, and last year's wildfires in Los Angeles. County Administrator Criswell, good morning, and thanks for being on the program.
DEANNE CRISWELL: Good morning, Leila. Happy to be here.
FADEL: So we heard our correspondent mention that FEMA's Disaster Relief Fund has money to work with for a while. Let's listen to what DHS Secretary Kirsti Noem had to say about this last week.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
KRISTI NOEM: If we had some kind of an attack or a terrible disaster that hit our country, FEMA's the agency that's responsible for running our government, for stabilizing our country. And the Democrat Party is choosing not to fund FEMA and put us in jeopardy in that situation.
FADEL: If a disaster hits during this shutdown, would FEMA be able to respond?
CRISWELL: Oh, absolutely, Leila. I think it's important to note that there's, like, two sides of the money that supports FEMA's operations, and one is the Disaster Relief Fund. And that fund is what you would call no-year money, which means that they can continue to support the response to disasters. And it's not necessarily impacted by a shutdown directly, unless, like we saw at the end of the last fiscal year, where the account itself was running out of money. And so when it was running out of money, that created new challenges. I think where the challenge comes in is the people that need to execute the spending of that money.
FADEL: OK.
CRISWELL: Those that are funded out of that fund can continue to work, but those that aren't are going to be limited. And it takes both of them, right? And so what you could potentially see are delays in reimbursing some of the recovery work that's happening across the country. But I think it's important for the American people to know that FEMA will still be able to respond and execute that critical part of their mission to be able to help states and local jurisdictions save lives if something happens.
FADEL: So when you say the recovery work, you're talking about the aftermath of a disaster?
CRISWELL: Yes. So the way it works is jurisdiction, like in Hurricane Helene, will rebuild a project - right? - rebuild a road or rebuild a water treatment plant. They'll make repairs. And then they submit to the federal government, to FEMA, for reimbursement. The people that have to help execute reimbursing those jurisdictions, some of them will still be there, but some of them will be on furlough, and it could slow down if this drags out.
FADEL: OK. So if it does drag out, if it's not just a few days, but it's weeks, how would that affect preparedness for the next disaster?
CRISWELL: Well, and the preparedness piece is the other side, right? And so FEMA also provides funding to help jurisdictions with technical assistance on helping them write their plans or administer their grants or giving them the grant funding. And it also, you know, provides funding for mitigation projects. And so that funding is not part of this Disaster Relief Fund, and that funding would not be able to be used until they can come to a budget agreement. And so as we're looking at jurisdictions that are being asked to start to build their own capacity and potentially do more in the future, you've taken away the ability for FEMA to help them build that capability until a budget is passed.
FADEL: And beyond what you've mentioned, what other parts of FEMA's operations are affected by this partial shutdown?
CRISWELL: So it's the day-to-day running of the agency - right? - where you're not going to have all of the personnel that are there, right? They will identify essential personnel that will continue to come in and work, but they won't get paid, and they can only focus on those things that are allowable under the Disaster Relief Fund. So they can't work on the day-to-day operations, the day-to-day helping of other jurisdictions for non-disaster-related activities. So they're very limited in scope on what they can do, and it can only be on those activities that support disaster relief.
FADEL: This funding lapse is taking place while cuts were already underway at FEMA. Here at NPR, we've reported that the Trump administration will let thousands of workers go this year when their contracts expire. How does the shrinking of the agency exacerbate the impact of a shutdown?
CRISWELL: It really has a significant impact because, again, these people that are potentially going to be let go are those that are processing those claims, those that are helping to make those reimbursements to jurisdictions. And when you have less people, it's going to take longer. So it's going to take longer for these communities to get their money back so they can continue their recovery process.
FADEL: Former FEMA administrator Deanne Criswell, thank you very much for your time and your insights.
CRISWELL: Thank you, Leila. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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