AILSA CHANG, HOST:
A tool that has been used to solve crimes now faces a backlash. For years, the number of automatic license plate readers has been growing steadily, but President Trump's immigration crackdown has some cities and towns across the country worried that these devices pose privacy risks for residents. We're joined now by NPR's Jude Joffe-Block, who's been following all of this. Hi, Jude.
JUDE JOFFE-BLOCK, BYLINE: Hi.
CHANG: Hi. OK. First just remind all of us how an automatic license plate reader generally works.
JOFFE-BLOCK: Yeah. Well, these are cameras on roads that scan license plates and vehicles. So if police are searching for a car that's possibly tied to a crime, they can query the network to potentially find it. That's how police say they tracked down the Brown University shooting suspect back in December. But since the beginning of last year, some 30 cities and towns have stopped using these systems.
CHANG: And what are city leaders saying about why they're opting out? Like, what are they worried about specifically?
JOFFE-BLOCK: Yeah. Well, these cities all contracted with Flock Safety. It's one of the main vendors of these cameras, and Flock also operates a network for this data that agencies all over the country can search. And Flock says cities decide how broadly to share that data. But many cities with Flock contracts learned they'd been sharing nationally without realizing it - in some cases with federal agencies. Last year, Flock also had pilot programs with U.S. Customs and Border Protection and Homeland Security investigations that the company later acknowledged it had not communicated clearly about. And this frustrated Susie O'Hara. She's a city council member in Santa Cruz, California.
SUSIE O'HARA: I was very dissatisfied with a multibillion-dollar company continuing to make mistakes and putting our local data at risk.
JOFFE-BLOCK: And then when Renee Good was killed by an ICE agent last month in Minnesota, O'Hara said it felt urgent to make sure the city would not be tied to surveillance that could potentially aid the Trump administration's crackdown. And she and other council members voted last month to end their Flock contract.
CHANG: Wait. If I'm driving and my car goes past one of these cameras, can federal immigration agents, like, track my location indefinitely?
JOFFE-BLOCK: Well, Flock says their pilot program with the Department of Homeland Security agencies has ended, and ICE can't directly access the platform.
CHANG: OK.
JOFFE-BLOCK: But if you're driving in a city that's sharing their data with other police agencies, they could search on behalf of federal immigration agents. Both officials and journalists have found evidence in search logs that suggest this is happening. And many wonder if the Department of Homeland Security could at some point subpoena Flock and demand this data.
CHANG: OK. So there's this concern about privacy and immigration agents getting access to these kinds of records. But these systems can be used to help solve crimes, right? So how are cities balancing all those concerns?
JOFFE-BLOCK: Yeah. Some city officials are trying to keep their license plate readers in place but put stricter restrictions on data sharing. In Flagstaff, Arizona, the mayor there, Becky Daggett, told me she had hoped that approach could work for her city.
BECKY DAGGETT: But ultimately, even the compromises and the guardrails that were put up around the technology here locally, the community just had too many concerns and too many questions about it.
JOFFE-BLOCK: You know, residents raised concerns about Flock data being used to track protesters, and several mentioned a report about a Texas sheriff's office using Flock to search for a woman who'd had an abortion. And the city council voted to end their contract, too.
CHANG: OK. So how is Flock responding to this whole debate?
JOFFE-BLOCK: Yeah. The company points out that the number of new communities partnering with Flock outpaces the number that are not continuing. And the company says it's made the sharing controls clearer for cities. But it's also worth noting that Flock CEO, Garrett Langley, has suggested the company's critics want to, quote, "normalize lawlessness." He's also called one group that opposes the cameras, quote, "terroristic." And such comments may have actually backfired a bit. A couple local officials cited the CEO's rhetoric when they terminated their contracts.
CHANG: That is NPR's Jude Joffe-Block. Thank you, Jude.
JOFFE-BLOCK: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.